The Features Of A Television Football Commentary English Language Essay
✅ Paper Type: Free Essay | ✅ Subject: English Language |
✅ Wordcount: 5483 words | ✅ Published: 1st Jan 2015 |
Is there a noticeable difference in the ways of which radio football commentary and television football commentary are portrayed to their viewers, if so, why? And how are they different? For this investigation I will be comparing football transcripts that I have written up from two different matches, one being Manchester United vs. Chelsea and Ajax vs. Real Madrid.
Introduction
For my language investigation I will be comparing how football and radio commentaries use lexical, syntactic and technical features to commentate to the listener to get them to fully understand the match. I will be going through how the features act on the listeners of the radio commentary and the viewers of the football match on television. Sports commentary is a spontaneous form of writing which is made up on the spot as the match is live and no way acted out or staged. The very main difference between both commentaries is that, for television viewers, they can see what is happening, as they get to see a clear picture from the television and also have audio to tell them key information like what the players are doing in terms of actions performed or players names, on the other hand, radio commentary is very different, its more harder as they must provide everything needed for the listener to get a full understanding of how the match is undertaking and what is happening meaning more description and talking is needed. As there are different commentators such as Craig Burley, Paddy Crerand or Gary Lineker, each having their very own style to commentating.
Methodology
During my investigation I collected my language data that I will be using to back up my language investigation. I collected two football commentaries that were found on websites that collect videos of football matches. I chose the first football commentary as Manchester United is my favourite team and Chelsea is considered to be my most hated team. And I chose a famous team for my radio commentary Real Madrid and a random team that would mix it up a little – Ajax. I transcribed roughly ten minutes of each match, both on Radio and Television, I wrote it on word and then made a table for them both. Each transcript was not done from the beginning of the match; I made it so it’s half way through, so that the commentators are into the game and more likely to be speaking more.
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Analysis
I firstly made a table with the times the commentators paused throughout the transcript that I’d written for the specific amount of time throughout the match. From the 20 minutes that I’d transcribed the only reason that the amount of time the commentators took a pause is, one. They are different commentators with different styles of speaking and also the speed of which they talk through the action as it is happening as its spontaneous.
Match title: (Television only)
Pauses (seconds)
Real Madrid vs. Ajax
33 Seconds
Manchester United vs. Chelsea
56 Seconds
From the table above, you can see that there are less words being spoken in the Real Madrid vs. Ajax television match, the difference between the Real Madrid and Manchester match is a staggering 23 seconds, a very surprising notice is that both the Manchester and Madrid match were both commentated by the same commentators, famous, Andy Gray and Martin Tyler, there are many reason why there is such a difference, many variables can come between each match, there is much more happening in the Manchester match then the Madrid match. The Manchester match featured sending off, cards had been given to players and also most importantly, a goal had been scored just as I started transcribing the match, which meant a lot more had to be said and that meant more pauses as the speech is spontaneous. On the other hand, the Madrid match had some incidents as well, such as injuries or fouls. Although every match is unique, it just shows how much of an impact it can be on the commentators and how they commentate on the match. It is then clear to conclude that the Manchester match had a far more ordeal to comment on thus the reasons for the difference in pauses and word count from both matches. What happens on the ordeals that happen on the pitch doesn’t matter as the commentators job is to comment on everything that is happening for the listeners whether it’s important or not, as the listeners have to know everything that is happening to make it more realistic and to seem like they’re there. Famous linguist David Crystal has shown that there are two types of commentaries to be found, one which is play-by-play and the other that is named colour-adding. When you hear colour adding you think of something that is like a lie that is placed to make the match more attractive and exciting. Well colour adding commentary means to add pre-event background, pre-evaluation and within-event interpretation, whereas Play-by-play commentary, when thought of makes you think of on the spot commentary where everything is quickly thought of as it happens, and that is what it is, it’s a method of commentating where someone describes events as they happen.
My second task was to carry out a word count on each transcript that I had written up, I used Microsoft Word, as it had features that show how many words are in the document, and this makes it much easier to find the total word count rather than having to count each word, which is time consuming.
What is the name of the Match?
Duration: 15 Minutes
Word Count: (Microsoft Word)
Manchester United vs. Chelsea (Television)
596
Real Madrid vs. Ajax (Television)
442
Manchester United vs. Chelsea (Radio)
731
Real Madrid vs. Ajax (Radio)
927
I was no surprised at the results on the table, side-by-side compared, there is a load of difference between the radio and television commentary. I expected that the radio commentary would have a lot more words then the television commentary, as there are more words needed to be spoken such as in the description as radio listeners have no visual display of the match to refer to or make their own judgements from, meaning they have to take each word from the commentator and use it to make an image of their own of how the match is being unfolded. There has to be more words spoken on the radio, as if there are pauses or dead zones in the commentary then the listener will have nothing to go on, as the point of listening to the radio commentary is to listen to the commentators unfold the match you, if there are pauses or nobody speaks, the its silent, and what is the point of listening to the radio for silent noise? To conclude, silence is a curse on the radio, meanwhile in the television commentary, even if the commentator goes silent for a second or two, there are still visual aids to go off from, you can still see the players and the match, and you can make your own commentary up for what is happening, this is sometimes urged by the viewer as they can tell the match in their own voice as this can be exiting at times, but whereas the radio listeners, they cannot do this as they rely on the commentators for the whole match.
By taking the theorist of David Crystal, by adding two more columns to the table, and naming the two columns with the theories, I have gone through the transcripts once more and checked for colour-adding and play-by-play.
Match title
15 minute transcribe.
Word Count: (Microsoft Word)
Colour-Adding
Play-by-Play
Manchester United vs. Chelsea (Television)
596
294
452
Real Madrid vs. Ajax (Television)
442
218
396
Manchester United vs. Chelsea (Radio)
731
34
601
Real Madrid vs. Ajax (Radio)
927
150
758
When you look at the colour adding and play-by-play theories at work, there are differences that are clear, in television commentary, two-fourths of the commentary is using colour adding, whereas on-the-other-hand, if you take the radio commentary, Manchester United, their word count was 731, the amount of colour adding was 34, whereas with the radio commentary if you take, for instance, Real Madrid vs. Ajax, their word count was 927, but their colour adding tally was only 150, making it insignificant in the commentators commentary. There are possible reasons for this sort of thing to happen, on radio, when commentating on sports, their objective is to tell listeners exactly what is happening and because its spontaneous and they have to add more description then there would be on television commentaries, there is no time for colour-adding, meanwhile on television it is not usual for commentators to tell viewers exactly what is happening as the viewer can see what is happening and normally make up their own commentary. Colour adding and play-by-play have nothing to do with each other, just because the commentator includes loads of colour adding, it doesn’t mean they’re going to includes a lot of play-by-play as well, with play-by-play, the commentator can be more specific on what they commentate on, as not everything is needed to be commentated to the viewer as they can see it for themselves. There are more pauses as there is no need to commentate on everything, the commentator could be more organized and use the time not spent commentating on everything that is happening by adding more colour-adding to the commentary to make the commentary more enjoyable and interesting. In the commentary of Manchester United v Chelsea ‘-Both M and A talking-: Look at Sir Alex’s dress sense, it’s appalling, what kind of role model is he? He’s wearing a polo neck. He’s indefinitely sending the wrong message to the kids of today.’, what the commentators said has nothing to do with the match, they go off topic and stop commentating as the viewers can see what is happening and do not need their help.
There is a list of collocations which mean that two or more words are put together to provide a technical term for something that occurs, there are football examples that can be used such as ‘penalty-box’, ‘free-kick’ or ‘penalty-kick’. These examples are words that are used frequently used in football commentary and football as a whole, both words of the collocation, when split apart, have different meanings, but together they have a different meaning to their own separate meanings. When put together they have conjoined into a football lexical meaning specifically for football. These aren’t the only collocations used in football; they also refer to football teams that are context-bound, such as ‘Liverpool’, ‘Chelsea’, or ‘Newcastle’. Without knowing what the context is for the words, they could be used for a many of things, the same thing could go for players or commentators as well, such as ‘Robin’ without context it doesn’t mean its Robin van Persie from Manchester United.
Grammar
Ajax vs. Real Madrid (T)
Ajax vs. Real Madrid (R)
Manchester United v Chelsea (T)
Manchester United v Chelsea (R)
The difference
Conjunctions
43 (5%)
Pronouns
65 (7%)
Prepositions
107 (12%)
Nominalizations
8 (1%)
On another note, one noticeable features of sports overall’s commentary is its specific vocabulary. There are many well-known football lexical words, but they are not typical associated to it, they have just been used so much in the football world that they have grown to become part of it, this is a difficult problem faced by people who study the semantics of words, grouping words under a category. On the other hand, the words listed have meaning that relate to what they mean in football, such as the word ‘clear’, it means an object that is transparent and can be seen through, but in the semantic field of football, it means to clear the ball away from the persons goal towards the other team.
The register commonly used by many commentators uses specific words to do with what they are talking about when reporting the football commentary, they still talk so that a broad audience can still understand what they are saying, they don’t use complex words that only hard core fans or people that have done extensive research into the sport can understand, they use words that are every day and that people can easily pick up if they continue listening and gradually fully understand, this is why a lot of the world play and watch football, as it’s easy to get the hand of and is easy to understand all the lexical words to do with the sport. Tenor explains in the register theory that there are two types of language, informal and formal, informal is when there is swearing, interruptions, overlaps, first names used, nicknames or diminutives, and in formal is when there is full forms, no slang, no first names, turn-taking. In football commentary they mostly use formal language, commentators don’t use slang or abbreviated forms, and rather they use neutral lexis and turn-taking.
Metaphors are widely used in commentary, especially radio commentary to add a more vivid image of the match as radio uses cannot see the match for themselves or have any visual aids. This is especially important as if the commentators cannot make a live and vivid broadcast of the match for the listeners then the radio listeners will lose interest and it will be a lot of boring factual information without any enjoyment or excitement. However metaphors used whilst listening and viewing can be used with moderation, as overuse can kill the enjoyment that can be had with it, making it a dull and boring commentary with over-usage of rhyming, metaphors and clichés.
This is nothing new, things like this can be found in newspapers, newspapers or speeches made by two or more people. There is something special about sports commentary, in everyday conversations there will be a large usage of stuttering, hesitations, fillers, false starts and incorrect grammar usage such as starting a sentence with the word ‘but’, which is incorrect, yet sports commentators are very experienced and don’t make the mistakes that average people do when speaking, this gives the impression that sports commentators have had much time practising with spontaneous speech and having to make up sentences that are rich in description and are enjoying for a long time.
The fluid state of the conversation by both commentators through the match is continuative and entertaining, rarely do commentators mess up and disrupt the fluency, the fluency is backed up by a highly represented presentation and style of commentating which is made by practice in which the commentators have grown and adopted by seeing other commentators and picking up on their positives and revise on their negatives.
Commentators use non-fixed structures in their commentating, they don’t go on a script as the football match is spontaneous and unrevised, there is no script that can be used, so that means there is a beneficial reduction in things to remember for the commentators, making learning and revising topics or lines such as actors do are not needed for commentators. As commentators need to remember all 11 starting players with 5 substitutes and also use their names whilst making spontaneous commentary is an overload for the commentators so not remembering speeches is a plus for them, but it also adds to the fluency of which the commentators much keep at.
Bryant, Brown, Comisky, & Zillmann (1982) examined how commentary can affect the judgement of viewers, they concluded that commentary affects the viewer’s perception, they named it as ‘Commentary Effects -3’, They also found commentary to effect the viewer’s perception on feels, this can be seen in football commentary too, as when commentators shout ‘GOAL!’, commentary viewers jump for joy and their emotions change, depending on what the commentators are commenting on such as injuries or goal’s for opposition teams, viewers emotions change to suit the commentary.
With radio commentary, there are many things that the commentators have to remind the viewers of, such as the current time in the match, such as ‘half time is nearly approaching’ or ‘it’s approaching the final whistle’. Every so often this happens, this information is shortly commented on by the commentators or their hosts who have joined them to give their view on the match so far and possible line ups to the upcoming events that are going to be unfolded. This however also happens on television commentary, but as television viewers have all the information they need to go on, they don’t need it that much, only if there is a half time approaching or the game is going to have minutes added on such as ‘2 minutes will be added onto the match’, this happens mostly because the viewers are into the match and aren’t looking at non-important information such as current time into the match.
Play-by-play commentary is when the commentator describes everything important that is happening in the match, such as actions performed by the players such as foul moves or great skills performed to goals and other important actions that are important to listeners to get a grasp of what is going on. When commentators are commenting on the action, they use present tense to make the action more exciting and it also adds drama to the commentary, as its happening as we speak, also commentators speak in present tense making it seem that the listeners are in the same time as them and are viewing it live instead of being commentated everything that is happening, meaning it’d be past tense, making it dull and non-dramatic.
Conclusion
Radio and Television commentary both have the linguistic features available by commentators to convey the action delivered on the pitch to the viewers and listeners at home without them being there, commentators add fluency and description to each commentary to make sure that viewers don’t miss out on any action, with both commentators for television and radio using the same lexical and language features, there are still much difference between them, on the other hand there are also a lot of similarities such as the same common register is used, colour adding is used by both radio and television commentary to add life into the commentary whilst there is nothing interesting happening, but as soon as the match turns exciting and packed full of commentary that is worthwhile to the listener/viewer everyday commentary starts again, with loads of description.
Transcripts
Game: Ajax vs. Real Madrid
Date: Wednesday 3rd October 2012
Radio
Broadcasted on: Radio 5 Live
Commentators: Mike Ingham (A), Terry Butcher (B), Alan Green (G)
Time: 21:00 to 26:30 (rounded)
A: very exciting match, two one, this is five live, two players trying to keep possession over the ball as the other tries their best to take it, one of them is Kaka, the other Ryan, whom has scored 3 goals for Ajax for the 2012-2013 fixtures. Er Ryan looks like he er means business. Real Madrid forming a wall on the edge of the pitch, great stuff. Alvaro coming up on the right hand side, very slyly, trying all tactics to get this ball, and here comes Daley!!, ooh! Right footed, back again to Thulani, volley! Excellent volley by Thulani. Might possibly be a play on, the balls down the side. This is an excellent set up by Christian, Christian’s ball is controlled brilliantly by Gonzalo, darn, mistakes made, and there it goes back to Theo, Ajax. Again, Essien goes in!, cross by Essien, looking positive. Wiel heads it away, not too far. In goes Rhijn, Tobias looking like he’s keen for the ball. Offense by real Madrid is dream like! Raphael takes the ball out of Ajax’s position. Sami takes the ball that Raphael sends him. Balls gone stroppy, but still, there is control, not too much though as it’s a throw-in for Ajax.
A: Well play to Ajax, they really do know how to get the ball down the pitch with ease and tactics, let’s hope this match is a good one for them. They’ve got Thulani who comes off very eager and possessive. They’ve got a chance at goal! Well defended by Real Madrids defenders, Xabi and Luka.
B: Mesur with a goal after ten minutes, Real Madrid haven’t advanced higher at the moment, but you never know what is going to happen. Haven’t had any word from Cristiano Ronaldo yet, but let’s see what happens with him later on. Mesut had an incident, being fouled, but the ref doesn’t take any nonsense and one again plays a good card and Kaka is much happier in attacking midfield. Kaka takes the ball, crosses it to Cristiano Ronaldo. Ajax swoops in and takes it, big clearance, sending the ball flying from Ricardo Van Rhijn. Free kick to Ajax, taking it is Viktor. It’s coming up-to twenty three minutes, the free kick is taken, goes miles, it goes long to Kolbeinn, ohh not good enough. It goes offside. And it’s a free kick to Real Madrid, making the match look a bit too easy.
B: Good play from Ajax, meanwhile Real Madrid is making a mince pie out of it. This is er exciting I suppose. Ajax has had many chances at the net, throw in’s near the penalty box, two plus chances at goal er its not been an easy ride as it in the seventh to tenth minutes for Real Madrid. Er Real Madrid has stopped playing tactically, and have gone to defence mode in trying to stop the Ajax from conceding a goal. -sigh noise- Ajax has just given the ball away needlessly and er have to work very hard to get past the defence set up by Real Madrid. In my opinion Ajax need to work on their tactics, if they want to keep the ball and actually have a chance at scoring then they need to go down the left hand side, Mitchell looks like he knows what he is er doing.
G: This is a great match, packed full of action and drama. Joel hasn’t been seen too much in the action so far keeping in his position and not trying anything risky, -shock noise- Lesley goes for Jose’s legs, refs seen it, but Ajax had possession so the match is continued. Tobias passes to Niklas, Niklas passes, oh what is this, he is checking his boot something seems to be a worry to him. Fabian clips it off his boot to Miralem who has been very handy to Ajax so far. Taken from the right hand side forward from Miralem, he proceeds up to the touchline. Wide to Fischer as there is certainly pressure coming from the opposition in getting the ball out of their side of the pitch, watch out gents. This is going to get tasty. Essien snags the ball and boots it off the pitch. Throw in to Ajex. Ajex make the most out of it, but no luck. Marcelo heads back and helps, Marcelo clears it, and may I say he has tried to make his outfit work with his style, boots matching his hair, what a great pair. Real Madrid two, Ajax nil. You’re listening to Real Madrid vs. Ajax on BBC Five Live.
G: You’re back with BBC Five Live. Cristiano playing at a solid four if I may say. Things are looking more comfortable for Real Madrid as their possession and passing have improved dramatically, this can easily take a turn for the worse, If Ajax improves their game and gets more possession and advances, and they have a chance. Daley and Thulani stay back securing the bottom half of their side, as Miralem and Viktor advance forwards up the pitch in needless try of possessing the ball. Ajax is stepping up. They are playing more tactically, Real Madrid are more advance on the outside of the pitch, defensively and offensively, but Ajax have gone for a different approach, heading straight through the middle, this is marvellous, constantly making needless amounts of Real Madrid’s players head inwards at a fail attempt to reach the ball, but its useless, Ajax are going for goal!
B: what’s this? Ajax has called for subs.
Match Title: Ajax vs. Real Madrid
Date: Wednesday 3rd October 2012
Television
TV Channel: Sky Sports HD
The Commentators: Martin Tyler (M), Andy Gray (A)
Time: 20:00 to 25:19
Final score at the end of the match: Ajax 1 – 4 Real Madrid
M: Attempted blocked. Kaka left footed shot from the left hand side of the box is quickly blocked which is assisted by Xabi.
A: Kaka doesn’t normally get blocked, but it was a good try, hopefully he’ll have better luck next time.
A: hopefully Ajax concede a goal soon, this is looking like a tough match for them.
M: in my opinion I wasn’t er sure what he was er doing their, didn’t seem like he was making much of an effort, other matches he’s tried the same thing, he’s has success there. Maybe the goal difference is getting to his head, and he’s trying to be cocky or something. Touch from the 27 year old Cristiano Ronaldo, processing it up the pitch towards Gonzalo who is ready. It was a good plan to steer it up towards the centre forward with Alvaro next to him and Jose on his right. Iker keeping his wits up as this can get interesting for him, as the centre forward proceeds up. The delivery from Gonzalo to Maria is shaped up to be good, on the right he crosses it to Cristiano Ronaldo but misses, throw-In given to Ajax.
M: Cristiano Ronaldo, what a great player, one of the best in my opinion, and many of the supports agree.
A: Jody takes the throw-in, AH! He’s given it back to Real Madrid, Cristiano Ronaldo! It’s all up to him, the keeper is the only one keeping him from conceding a goal!, but the goalies done well to keep it away from the net, nice eye on the ball there.
A: what an exciting bit of match that was. Ajax have got the ball, Ryan to Joel, Joel runs with it, nicely taking on Angel on the right. Good pressuring from Luka giving it his everything, its looking good, Joel looks like he knows what he’s doing. Kaka coming behind him, trying to work his magic for the ball, but is it good enough!? Keeping to the right, trying to cross it, there isn’t enough space and Real Madrid takes it swiftly. Real Madrid have played magnificently, it looks like Real Madrid might just take this home.
M: I agree, Madrid have just been too good at keep possession and their tactics cannot be out matched today by Ajax.
A: When’s the draw happening? Friday?
M: Yeah, Friday.
M: Alvaro, keeps heading up, right hand side, he looks confident, Daley is waiting, watching his moves, Daley takes it, there is no getting past him, the defence on this guy. It’s fantastic!, -sighs- half way down the pitch, it goes off
A: Throw in for Real Madrid.
Match Title: Manchester United v Chelsea
Date: 03/10/12
Radio
Broadcasted on: Radio 5
The Commentators: Mike Ingham (A), Bryan Hamilton (B), Alan Green (G),
Steve May (S)
Time: 20:00 to 25:00 (rounded)
Final score at the end of the match: Manchester United 3 – 3 Chelsea
A: As Ashley brings the ball up, Bebe is on the scene to bring it back to Chelsea’s half of the pitch. Florent down the left, looks like Buttner isn’t even trying here, where’s his head at today? Mr Veysey joins us here; he’s already here for a very long ‘noon. He’s already been accused of the criticism why penalty allegations were hushed away by our Howard Webb. For extra measures, he’s also had a shouting from Roberto Di Matteo.
Mr Veysey joins us here, he’s already here for a very long ‘noon. He’s already been accused of the criticism why penalty aligations were hushed away by our Howard Webb. For extra measures, he’s also had a shouting from Roberto Di Matteo.
A: Chelsea are starting to get more into the game as time ticks on, getting on the ball more and more and making those crucial decisions up there in the pitch. Manchester’s in for a good fight here tonight.
A: Lampard and Oscar are going for goal, this could be it, down the middle, they’re going in strong, nobody is going to stop them, gigs looks like he’s going to make an attempt at it, but .. no, they get through, Oscar takes the shot, ohh.. just goes a little wide.
B: yeah that’s right, they’re playing very good, good inter-passing er between Lampard and Oscar, he got the ball as expected, but on the other hand, I would have expected Eden to be taking the shot, he was closely trailing and he had a massive amount of pitch in front of him to make a better shot and smacking it in for goal.
B: Quick stats attack and Chelsea can boast about the 66% of possessions in the last 15 minutes, impressive. Just shows they’re really trying to play tactically in the match, making a much more impact since opposed to the opening moments.
A: Great, GREAT last challenge from Ivanovic as he goes for the slide in try to take the ball off Welbeck a mere six yards from the goal.
B: Manchester haven’t given many away and er I think it’s important for them, as they are very experiences, keeping their cool at this moment in time, there only been two or three cock ups, where players have lost their edge and need it back to continue on with the match in hopes of winning here.
A: Yellow card for Fernando Torres. That’s the first booking of the game, and its Chelsea’s frontman. Unlucky mistake of charging after the ball, but unluckily charging into Evans back instead. Not really this fault, but the striker can’t get away with it, or the ref will look like he’s going soft on them.
Evra is down now, after that fiasco straight to the face. Oh that must’ve hurt. He’s made of stronger stuff then that, and he’s back up running like it didn’t even happen.
B: It’s a game of brawn, but with these nagging free-kicks which are interrupting the flow of the game. 10 minutes till half time, will either side be able to get past the tie breaker and concede the goal that wins them the match?
A: it’s an own goal by Jonny Evans! GOAL! GOAL! Three nil to Chelsea. Manchester concede a free-kick out wide on the right. United are going downhill.
A: Chelsea finally got past united tight defence, and it paid off.
B: United try and get back, Unit go close straight away taking no long turns. Young’s fierce drive from 18 yards is stopped it its tracks by Cech, but the follow through by the results from Cech nearly gives the ball to the waiting Rooney who is eager to pelt it in. Rooney goes for it.
B: Another save by the magnificent Cech, as Rooney and Welbeck combine for the stinging effort. It’s a corner. The corner comes in, but Cech is having none of it, he keeps Chelsea victors.
A: Time after time Young sends the crosses which, if correctly manoeuvred can get them the goal they oh so desperately need. But Chelsea don’t seem to be giving them the chance, the defence is too tight.
A: er Man U goes in for the shot… but again the Chelsea squad’s defence can deal with anything tonight. … It deflects, Rooney goes in for the kill, but gets turned down as Cech slams the ball away for another corner. Young takes it. But before Man U can do anything, the ref. blows the whistle for halftime.
Match Title: Manchester United v Chelsea
Date: 03/10/12
Television
Broadcasted on: Sky Sports HD
The Commentators: Martin Tyler (M), Andy Gray (A)
Time: 15:04 to 23:08
Final score at the end of the match: Manchester United 3 – 3 Chelsea
M: Valencia cuts inside past Bosingwa like he wasn’t even trying, but his control was too much and loses it. Luiz can clear it, hope he does, ah, but instead dribbles it and quickly loses it in the process. Oh Man U are hopeless at actually trying to score today.
Mereles takes the free-kick for Chelsea and makes a proper go of it, well tries to, it’s an cross-cum-shot-cum-no. it’s a rubbish delivery, easily knocked away by Evans.
A: Torres. Torres has the ball, he looks confident, the ball looks likes its lined up with
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